Biography
The following interview on Monday, November 12, 2002 is with Tracey Crawford who attended Baylor University, currently working as the president of Ramey & Flock, as well as the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas. The interviewer is Tom Clark.TC - Tom Clark
TRC - Tracey Crawford
Transcript
The interviewer is Tom Clark, and the interviewee is Tracy Crawford. TC is Tom Clark, TRC is Tracy Crawford
TC: Today is November 12, 2002. Tom John Clark, location Region's Bank, Broadway in Tyler on the fifth floor. If you could start off by stating your name.
TRC: I'm Tracy Crawford.
TC: I think you said there's ten question, I think there's a little more than ten. You might be take a long time, I'll shorten some of this. Where do you currently reside at?
TRC: I'm at 4040 Copeland Road in Tyler.
TC: And, how long have you lived there?
TRC: Twenty-two years, no thirty-two years; since 1970.
TC: Ok, could you discuss your educational background a little bit?
TRC: I have a BA from Baylor University and a Doctor of Jurisprudence from Baylor Law School.
TC: What is your present position and how long have you had this post?
TRC: I'm a, the president of Rainey and Flo, which is a special corporation, it's a law firm. I estimate it, I've been here for probably 10 to 15 years.
TC: How long did you work with the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas?
TRC: Well, I probably trialed my first case there I 1963 or possibly 1964. In front of Judge Sheehy.
TC: Could you discuss the changes in the court during your tenure?
TRC: Well, certainly the court is much larger now that it was in terms of the number of judges or full time magistrates. The uh, the practice before the Court, I think, has also changed significantly during that time period. Uh, I've never been involved I the criminal practice before the Court except, on a few rare occasions by appointment. Um, in the early days there were cases that would be tried in federal court, damage suit cases, and over and over the years, plaintiffs liability came to be a very significant part of the practice before the court. Then uh, probably in the early to late 70s one of the very first asbestos cases in the country, I think, was brought in this court. And uh, to the best of my knowledge, it was one of the earliest if not the earliest, um, cases that involved a large number of defendants and a large number of plaintiffs who were making the same claims. Um, I was not actively involved in that, John Clark in our office was lead counsel for some of the main defendants in that case. And I think Tom Henson was probably involved in some of that. Uh, in recent years the court has uh, become more involved in very large commercial cases that have been brought in the Marshall Division, some in Tyler. But the most part in Marshall or perhaps Texarkana.
TC: Could you discuss public perception of the United States District Court for the Eastern District?
TRC: Well, I think, there's probably two different perceptions. I think by the public generally the perception is that the Court is held in very high esteem and the uh, position of the United Stated District Judge is very highly regarded. Um, in the legal community, certainly the same would be true about the Judges...... But because of the jury verdicts that have been handed down in either Beaumont or Marshall, or Texarkana there is a strong inclination for people if they are able to do so to bring these lawsuits in one of the divisions of the district because they believe it is more fitting for the case.
TC: Okay, what was Judge Parker like?
TRC: Judge Parker is a one who is on the cutting edge of everything he's involved in. Uh, very highly regarded by all of the lawyers. Innovative in terms of procedural matters, and issues regarding the administration of justice. I would consider him a very close personal friend. And uh, respected, as a Trial Judge he was decisive, he was fair, he ran a good court and let the lawyers trial their case. Um, but on some occasions if he had some strong feelings about the case he might, ask a very pointed question or two. I think that over all of the trial lawyers who had an opportunity to appear in his court thought he was a very good Judge.
TC: Describe your interaction with Judge Parker.
TRC: Judge Parker and I have been friends uh, since the very earliest days of our practice because we're about the same age. And we had some common roots in that, in those days the way State Courts set their dockets and they would conduct periodic docket calls and if there were enough lawyers in the law firms around would journey to where ever the court was located and we would be present to hear the court call it's docket and respond on behalf of the cases that were being handled by that lawyer's firm. And uh, so we, after it was over with we would go sit and drink coffee. A few years later, not too many years later, Judge Ward became a part of that group, uh, and we developed close relationships. There were, I guess for both Judge Ward and Judge Parker, believe there were more times that we were representing co-defendants in cases than uh, they were holding cases against one another. I don't recall a single case that I ever had when Judge Parker and I were on opposite sides. There may have been a case or two that I was opposite Judge Ward, that was also rare. And uh, it was a, just a, certainly on my part, feeling of admiration and respect and collegiality.
TC: Ok, what Judges have you been influenced with now?
TRC: Probably, one of the most important events in my career was the fact that when I was a very young lawyer; probably been out of law school a year. Judge Sheehy called me over an appointed me to trial a federal criminal case in his court. I don't even remember exactly the charge; it had to do with embezzlement in a bank, I believe. It seems to me like it was the bank may have even been in Corsicana or something near Corsicana. But, I didn't know anything about criminal law, I didn't know anything about federal procedure and I was scared to death. And Judge Sheehy stepped through my heart through his heart. Uh, but um, a Federal Judge has a lot more latitude than a State Court Judge does; I stumbled through that trial with the help of Judge Sheehy. He gave me a lot of help. I don't even remember the ouTRCome, I think the guy was convicted but I don't think the sentence was nearly as strong or maybe he was convicted of a lesser charge. I had a sense of some degree of success in the case. But after the case was over with the Judge Tom Raymond was still alive and Judge Sheehy called Judge Raymond without any solicitation at all and said some kind words about me to the Judge. It boosted my standing in Judge Raymond's eyes and more than that it gave me a tremendous degree of confidence in thinking that maybe I could be a trial lawyer some day. Other than that uh, Judge Steger has been a Judge that I have trialed a lot of cases before. And uh, I've always considered Judge Steger a very good friend and a person who will um, because of the manner in which he treated lawyers in his court, gave me confidence in my abilities. Uh, Judge Justice, is a Judge that I've probably trialed more cases; it would be close between Judge Justice and Judge Steger. I've had a, at the time when Judge Justice was about to leave Tyler and go to Austin, he made the comment that um, I had probably trialed more cases before him than anybody else. Um, had, of course Judge Justice's views are widely known and he was very much a person who was concerned with the Civil Rights Movement, all the time that I was before him, I would be representing defendants in cases that involved types of violations, Civil Rights or Constitutional Rights. But um, although that was true, Judge Justice always gave me a fair trial; I um, respect him as a man and I respect him and like him very much as a person. I um, was in difficult scrapes in some of those cases before him but it was always a matter that was handled with very professional judicial temperament and I respect him for that.
TC: What cases have been influential?
TRC: Well, um, I trialed a case, again in Judge Justice's Court, in the early days of the Civil Rights Movement. Plaintiff's lawyer in the case was a lawyer named Mark McDonald. A civil rights lawyer in Houston, who's wife was later appointed to be a federal judge. And Mark was a very good lawyer and very able advocate. He was representing a black school teacher from Lufkin and uh, it was a lawsuit against the Lufkin Independent School District because it claimed that the termination of the teacher was motivated by discrimination. We trialed that case in front of Judge Justice and there is a book about Judge Justice's career and in the book he says that, that was the most ruthful case that he's ever had to decide. Uh, he ruled in favor of the school district and uh, that, it was uh, a very long trial and was widely observed by people in the Eastern District of Texas. And the fact that we won the case was not my doing but because we had some very good facts, in the case but it also came to the attention of a lot of folks and I had an awful lot of that kind of business, still do. There have been a lot of big civil cases that I have been involved in but I don't know that any of them were any more significant to me than that.
TC: What types of work do you traditionally do before the court?
TRC: Uh, the, that's hard to generalize. I have done a lot of Title IIV, a lot of Constitutional Law cases, but I have also done a lot of plaintiff's liability. I've done a few anti-trusts cases, a few patent cases, um, a few contract or commercial disputes. I wear various stripes. As I think will be true of most of the practitioners of the court who often want to do civil. East Texas lawyers are not really specialist but we trial lots of different kinds of cases.
TC: Ok, what Judges have affected the daily life and the community?
TRC: Well, Judge Justice probably more than any of the others because he was involved in several school cases, the prison cases, and civil rights law. And probably had more of an impact on citizens, other than those who were the main parties in the lawsuits, then any other Judge in this time when I was practicing before the court.
TC: What issues do you think would be more important in the area?
TRC: Well, there were, I guess, the three things that come to my mind, are the school cases that Judge Justice was involved in; the prison case or cases; and then the procedural activities in the administration of justice. Judge Justice was involved in first then it was Judge parker. Parker was involved in the third with the civil justice. Uh, let's see at the time I was not in favor of things that Judge Justice was doing in the schools or the prison. I'm looking back right now with 20/40 hindsight and had those kinds of decisions or changes not been required we might not ever had as a society have moved to the point where we are now. I might from a personal standpoint I might go back and disagree with some individual things that were done but over all I think that the progress that has been made has been beneficial to our state and our society as a whole. And I would probably feel the same way about the prison cases. I'm not sure if I would agree with as many of the rulings in the prison cases as I might in the school cases but, never the less I don't think that anybody could argue that some of those things. (mumbles) The um, changes with regard to the procedures of the court was something that I was involved in with Judge Parker as chairman with the first committee that dealt with those issues. And we were one of the cutting edge districts in the country with regard to, we had approved procedures.
TC: How has the law changed as a result of the United States Court for the Eastern District of Texas?
TRC: Well, I think in those same three areas. I think that those are the areas that come to my mind as being the ones where the most significant changes in the law have occurred.
TC: Yes sir, ok. In what direction did the court move, do you think?
TRC: We, I don't know that the Court has a direction, I think it is a Court at the present time that has Judges that are very good lawyers. There are many of the Judges who were really good litigators before they went on the bench and others have lived with experience and that makes such a difference to the trial practitioner to be dealing with a Judge who knows what the trial lawyer is going through and what they are trying to get accomplished. And so my belief is that the Judges, you may always disagree with individual decisions, but I think the Judges are activist court. And I think they are giving people and opportunity to trial their cases; and I think they follow the law; and I think that they are giving all of the litigant's fair trials. I'm not, I have no problems with the trials that I have been given by Judges in brawl and have never perceived an inclination towards any issue or against any issue. They simply did the job that they've been appointed to do.
TC: Ok, uh, could you discuss the attorney - judicial relationships a little bit?
TRC: To the best of my knowledge it's a very good, collegial relationship, I don't know whether all the other districts in Texas did it or whether we're unique. But, there is a Bar Association of the Eastern District of Texas that uh, we have a meeting annually with the Court, and it's always well attended and it is a very friendly, professional gathering. Where there is interaction between the Court and the lawyers, and I think it is a really good vehicle for creating and keeping the kinds of mutual respect that I think is important in the administration of justice.
TC: How have particular jobs shaped your view of the law or society? I'm sorry, Judges.
TRC: Well, I don't know that urn, I've spoke of Judge Sheehy, when I came to Tyler Judge Sheehy was already on the Federal Bench and he commanded such tremendous respect almost to the point of irreverence. Of course, I was just out of law school and I but the manner in which everybody that I was aware of spoke about Judge Sheehy caused me to have the same kind of awe, irreverence, respect for the federal judge. And for the burdens and for the views that they must respond to and the loneliness sometimes of that kind of a position. Um, I guess if I had changed any views at all uh, it would be in the civil rights area um, and that was by the change in the direction I felt the federal should take but granted it's just the methods that were used.
TC: All right, this is the last one I think. Did Judge Parker shape the times or was he a product of the times?
TRC: Oh, I think he was helped changed the times. The innovative ways that he.