Biography
The following interview on Thursday, July 21, 2005 is with Tom Duesler who attended law school at Baylor, and since then did insurance defense work with his own practice. The interviewer is Cynthia Devlin.
TD - Tom Duesler
CD - Cynthia Devlin
Transcript
CD: It is July 21, 2005. It's Thursday. We are at the Federal Court House in Beaumont. And I'm Cynthia Devlin and I am going to interview Tom Duesler. Would you for the record tell me a little bit about yourself, where you were born, your education, your professional background?
TD: My name is Tom Duesler. I'm 51 years old. Born and raised here in Beaumont. My brother is an attorney here which is how I got into the business. I got a bachelors degree in microbiology from Texas A&M and worked as a chemist for about six years until my brother convinced me that lawyering was much easier work. And I went to law school at Baylor and got out in 83. I've been doing insurance defense work since that time; my practice has been pretty much here in Beaumont most of that time with a few cases in Houston and other parts. I've been practicing in front of the eastern district since 1983. The bar here in this town is and maybe it's part of being a backwater sort of town. We haven't had a lot of the cut throat problems that I've seen in other jurisdictions. Typically when a lawyer tells you he'll do something here, he's going to do it. That doesn't mean you will like it, but there is very seldom that lawyers lie to your face or won't get along or won't give you an extension when you ask for it and lawyers who have that mentality usually don't stick around here because lawyers and judges just won't deal with them. One unique case that I remember ah that wasn't particularly unique, but Judge Cobb's rulings certainly were. It was a case where a fellow lost part of his hand in a Volvo marine engine on board a ship he was repairing and we sued saying there wasn't a proper guard. An expert had been hired before I got in the case, he had an excellent resume, ah professional engineer, superb credentials. He was graduated with honors from the University of Michigan, absolutely outstanding. He testified and did a very fine job. The Volvo lawyer who was John Guilpin from Houston did all the Volvo work state wide. Outstanding attorney, he knew Volvo and its engines backwards and forwards and an excellent trial attorney. He took his best shot, asked him all the questions, couldn't shake him and Judge Cob said well is everybody through. And Mr. Guilpin said he was and then the Judge then asked the bailiff to excuse the jury because he had a few questions for the witness himself. And the bailiff took the jury out and Judge Cobb looks at this brilliant engineer and said 'don't you remember three years ago, so first of all when did you change your name to Burch and second of all don't you remember three years ago me telling you never to come back into this courtroom with that phony diploma that you have been using,' and that that was unique. And turns out this fellow had a just sort a made up this degree, and just like he was making up his testimony. But Judge Cobb said I know Duelser wasn't part of this so I'm not going to sink him in front of the jury by doing this in front of them. So, ah anyway as soon as your done here, pack up your bags, leave the state and don't come back or I'll have you arrested. And the irony is that when the trial was over, the jury found for us because they thought that fellow was real persuasive and I talked to John Guilpin twenty years later at a deposition, he said I was the only Volvo case that he had ever lost in this jurisdiction, was with my phony engineer. There is a pause in taping.
TD: I do remember my wife used to clerk for Judge Bradford when he was one of the magistrates
CD: Oh, she did, okay, let me see if I've got her on the list. Does she use your name?
TD: No, V-A-N-N-A-H
CD: No I don't have her
TD: I can't even remember what time period that was, goodness gracious that's been a while. I want to guess like...
CD: V-A-N-A
TD: First name Ellen
CD: V-A-N-A
TD: V-A-N-N-A-H
CD: N-N-A-H...and first name Ellen?
TD: Her work number if you care is 899-5589 extension 600...she's the hearing officer with the worker's confirmation now and she was a briefing attorney for judge Bradford...who was the magistrate just before judge Radford...
CD: Ok...yeah we appreciate tips of any…
TD: oh I don't know if it's a tip or not but yeah
CD: well it's a good you know good to know...for other people that
TD: what sort of folks have you been talking to...primarily attorneys I guess?
CD: Law clerks, attorneys, secretaries, probation officers, U.S. district attorneys...just you know kind of a cross section...uh all over Beaumont, Athens, Austin I mean everybody's kind of moved around of course you know the Henderson, Garland, Jasper, Lufkin, Longview, Marshall I think we have someone somewhere else too...but we have a lot to do this was a project that was started and then uh the gentleman that was working on it his father became very ill and he had to leave so we kinda took up...you know after that so it's been going on for a couple of years and we've got three years to complete it the first four...
TD: [Laughs] oh, oh god…
CD: The first four chapters are due in October, well the book needs to be done it it's you know it's...got to be done
TD: Understood, I'm sorry I'm not normally at a loss for words I'm just not sure...
CD: No its, its...
TD: I mean I've tried a bunch of cases over here but...
CD: ok...and any of the well you're not like you said you're not that old...the school litigation was in the seventies, here's not a lot of uh of admiralty cases anymore here right and all the tobacco litigations was moved...and
TD: you know the asbestos replaced... the school district stuff in the early eighties
CD: And the asbestos...yeah I've got a lot of information about the asbestos cases from interviews...that was yeah
TD: that was that was pretty eerie...um you've probably heard about the
CD: Better take it off the fall so you can
TD: oh I'm sorry...
CD: that's ok, just it's on hold
TD: This didn't involve me but you may have heard about the criminal trial of Mike Brumley who was the associate director of the state worker's compensation commission and had been charged by the feds with uh taking kick backs from plaintiffs' attorneys in exchange for giving them awards at pre-hearing conferences...back before it was the worker's compensation commission back it was the industrial accident ward...Mike Jermel was his defense attorney and a darn fine one and I remember I attended Mr. Brumley's sentencing the trial was in judge shell's court and I want to say this was '94 , '93 somewhere in there and I remember running into Mr. Jermel outside who's has always had a subversive sense of humor and I remember him saying that ah he hoped Judge Shell had enough of a sense of humor to sentence Mr. Brumley to 401 weeks of total and permanent incarceration because the joke being 401 weeks is what an injured worked would get in the workers comp system. How long does that thing work?
CD: this thing is one of those new digital things and its goes hours and hours and you just put it in the computer
TD: Click it and dump it, incredible
CD: Yeah, they have one now that ah is once you put it in the computer it can type itself and transcribe itself but it can't do it down south because we talk with accents and say words that people don't say up north.
TD: Do you, has anybody talked about the eagle?
CD: The eagle?
TD: That used to be ah
CD: Not, not to me
TD: That used to be in Judge Cob chambers
CD: Yeah, I mean maybe to Dr. Barringer I don't know Dr. Barringer came down here and did some interviews
TD: I don't know the whole story; Mike may know better than I do ah there was in one of the pouching cases ah you know
CD: oh okay, the bald eagle is ah
TD: Yeah…
CD: yeah endangered…
TD: Yeah endangered species you plug them it is a federal crime and so it was evidence and so after a criminal trial they gave judge, I think it was Judge Cobb, I am pretty sure it was Judge Cob, and they kind of fish and game folks presented it to him and it was on display, beautiful thing, and then I don't know if it was a change in US attorneys or some directive from New Orleans or something that said its not appropriate for a judge to have an illegal thing…
CD: It's dead who cares
TD: An illegal thing in their chambers and they made him get rid of it. I don't know if that's the kind of, you might want to ask Mike about that, he'll probably recall it.
CD: Okay, I mean that is kinda, well I mean, I don't know, I'm a much more, some of that political correctness just is beyond my comprehension....
TD: The suckers dead
CD: I find it fascinating that you were a microbiology, chemist, I mean that is just marvelous so...
TD: I mean the critter is dead I can't imagine that hurts anything
CD: Well, that's what I mean, it's just logical so. So do you have any current experience with ah the the judges ah I know somebody has mentioned I've got their names somewhere, is it Crone and wait not Clark ah have you
TD: I don't think anybody got a big track record so far with Judge Crone. I had
CD: Okay.
TD: I had a case with her when she was the magistrate in Houston.
CD: Okay, can I hear about that
TD: Well, there isn't much to say
CD: okay, no just ok
TD: she was very professional she was terrific
CD: Okay
TD: I would love to tell you there was something controversial but???????
CD: Oh no it doesn't have to be ah you know controversial or anything
TD: I mean if you want to hear that it's fine.
CD: Okay, well, if you have had more experience with more current judges you know arguing and…
TD: I haven't had anything in Beaumont since Judge Crone took the federal bench. I did have a case with her when she was a magistrate in Houston and I just remember she handled everything just exceptionally well and it didn't take very long for both sides to realize she knew the law better than either of the lawyers did.
CD: Well prepared
TD: Yeah and that also made it a little hard for us to bluff her much [Laughs]. You know, she caught on to that pretty quick. But she was nice to a fault, patient, tried the case fairly, really did a good job. Now I had a trial with Judge Hanna up in Lufkin.
CD: Oh you did. Okay
TD: Before he passed away, I guess it has been a year or two ago. And the only thing unique about that is my client was Amish.
CD: That is very unique
TD: Gentleman from Indiana ah he is an Amish farmer, graduated from eighth grade and then went to work on the farm like his their custom. And when the furniture plant where they make handmade Amish furniture went south during the recession, he lost his job, he started this selling stuff out if his barn, and it became a multimillion dollar business, it's a unique catalog in that you have to send money or a check to an address and they will send you the product, they don't have a phone, they don't have a fax, they don't have a computer.
CD: Because they are not allowed to have the
TD: Because they don't have any of those things and can you imagine millions of dollars in business and they don't have a phone. And they placed the orders out of the barn their primarily for Amish families in the Amish community…
CD: That is how people know about them?
TD: He said their biggest seller was a Coleman lantern globes because you know those things are in every Amish home and they always break because the glass is thin. So he said they go through those by the thousands. But somehow one his catalogs got in the hands of a farmer near Jasper who fell on a milk bucket and cut his arm really bad, severed arteries and tendons all kinds of things and they said the edge of the milk bucket was too sharp and we had a personal injury defective milk bucket trial. Which I bet that is a first in almost any jurisdiction. Run that through West Law and see what you get.
CD: Wow
TD: I be there aren't many of those. But Judge Hanna made it clear that none of the lawyers could in any way suggest anything about his religious beliefs that would be absolutely taboo. And of course that is done so that it doesn't prejudice him that people say this guy's religious views are crazy so we don't like him. But it was me who said Judge I've got to go into his religious views because ah Mr. Shepler ah he looks like ZZ Top you know, these guys are going to think he came from Mars. He is a little fellow about 5 foot 7 with a beard that is almost down to his knees and ah dresses in a plain white shirt and no belt, belts are apparently gaudy, they don't wear belts, no snaps only buttons and the jury just loved the guy, absolutely loved the guy
CD: Why do you think that was, because there were, there it's a farming country, its, they had a kindred spirit. What?
TD: That's a big part of it and also the fellow was just so soft spoken, so obviously out of place, so obviously unpretentious, obviously not trying to hedge or say things that weren't true, he was just very soft spoken, very yes, no, there was no way anybody could look at him and this guy is lying. This guy was the witness out of central casting. But, you know I remember we took his deposition up in Indiana and the guy had sweet little daughter, 12 year old girl who is teaching me how she ah hitches the buggy every morning to take to school. But I think even Judge Hanna got a kick out of that one.
CD: Now did he allow you to bring up the religion after him saying how he ruled in your favor
TD: Yeah, well I mean he just said to allow me to board? Our other jury by saying this man is Amish he is going to look different than anything you have seen before, he's beliefs are very similar to what you've heard in the Baptist church except they take the scripture about being in the world but not of the world very seriously and is anybody going to hold that against him.
CD: Plus people in Lufkin are pretty religious, so
TD: Oh yeah everybody…
CD: so they probably had more kindred spirit with him, than…
TD: Loved him and respected him and heck of a nice guy
CD: Very interesting case
TD: That that was pretty unique. I bet you can scan through the computers and never find another defective milk bucket case.
CD: Wouldn't even know to look for one [Laughs] that is. So how is how is Judge Hanna as the first time you had met him, or…
TD: Well it was the first trial that I had with him.
CD: Oh you knew him?
TD: Yeah he was a prince, we were warned by the bailiffs every time we walked through Sir made sure you better make sure that cell phone is off ah that is a lesson that you won't violate more than once. Well how do you like it here? [Laughs] Did you come down from Nacogdoches?
CD: [Laughs] I live a little bit south of Lufkin.
TD: Huntington type, or..
CD: My family is from is about outside going toward the Neches river I am in the Angelina forest we, I built a house up there a couple years ago.
TD: Good for you, you weren't raised up there.
CD: No, I was actually raised in Beaumont Port Arthur area in Freeport, Lake Jackson, chemical company, chemical company type
TD: congratulations
CD: so, we got out but
TD: May be a little weird for the kids at school but you know other than that
CD: Well there are no kids at school, so not to worry and actually its funny, one of the schools up there is, they have some exemplary schools yeah
TD: oh yeah well…
CD: yeah but compared to large cities, it's not, not that way. But is it different practicing in front of a state court versus a federal court?
TD: You've asked that question of every person in here when there's dead air, right?
CD: No I really haven't, that's the first time I've have ever asked it.
TD: I think that most people would say state court is far more informal, the state court procedural rules have far less gotcha in them. I think most folks would say that federal court is considerably more button down, standing to address the court from a lectern for example. That is just not a typical practice at state court.
CD: That is how you do it in federal court?
TD: mmhmm, hmm
CD: okay
TD: yes, you walk up to a podium to address the witness.
CD: okay
TD: and then when you're finished you sit down the other lawyer walks up and asks his questions and that's you know that's the state court practice where you just sit in your chair and go…
CD: ah okay
TD: The personnel here have always been just nice to a fault its very seldom you get somebody who's really crabby. As far as federal court…
CD: probably because they enjoy what they're doing.
TD: I don't know ah you know this is going to sound I don't know how to say this but I've noticed this in law practice and it's a generality which I know were faulty but it's almost always accurate. If the lawyer at the top of the letter head, the big magic partner; If he is a good guy, everybody down the letterhead is a gentleman. If the person at the top of the letterhead is a jerk, even the file clerks have attitudes. You know, it's like it sets the tone for the whole place. And I don't know if it's because the judges have been collegial in cordial here over the years. But, you know the clerks, the law clerks, the clerk's office; I mean everybody has always been as nice as they can be around here. Which is not always the experience I've run into in other places?
CD: Well like for instance where? I mean if you're willing to say...if you're not...
TD: Yeah, it's just like where are you trying to throw me out to, what briar-patch have I been thrown into.
CD: No, but your saying you have found this to be ah more friendly, you don't have to tell me
TD: I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to sit there and say which jurisdiction. Houston are not friendly
CD: [Laughs]
TD: But I've run into that
CD: You've run into it, yeah
TD: But you know again it's almost like it comes down to the judge. I've had folks in Houston who are sweet as they can be but that is usually when the Judge is a prince.
CD: uh hum
TD: and ah if
CD: If the Judge is difficult than the whole trial is difficult
TD: Oh my gosh like I say even the bailiffs got his nose in the air. It's funny how that works, it seems unfailingly true. Um,
CD: and so that's why you basically decided to stay in the area.
TD: Can you turn that off for a second. I want to make sure this is off
CD: okay it is off Duelser: are you sure
CD: yes I am positive it is off
TD: I'm sure how much of this one thing is there were some judges here who used to accept gifts from attorneys and some of them were substantial and I remember...
CD: and that's a no, no isn't it I mean big time or
TD: I don't I would think so but...there was one instance where I covered a hearing for one of my partners because he was busy and it was about the 28th 29th of December I went over there and ran in there and lost the hearing and oh and he said well didn't you ask him how he liked the ham we sent over to his house I said I was just about to ask him that when the other lawyer asked him how he liked his new set of golf clubs and I figured you know maybe I oughta just leave it alone (laughs) I think he trumped our cold cuts real bad I'm not sure
CD: no you don't yeah mmhmm mmhmm
TD: I uh I don't know how much you want to hear of that...I don't
CD: Well...you know I understand but you probably wouldn't want to read it in a book
TD: I have to live in this town too
CD: Yes, yes, I know I understand that but um I don't know east I find east Texas so different from west Texas and so different from...other
TD: How so...geography or?
CD: well it I think it's placing the people in their geography that that makes us different maybe they seem more...and I hate to say the word independent but when they're a rancher or something and they're not close to their neighbors they really don't care what anybody thinks and here...
TD: I uh think there's...
CD: I think they're more densely populated and especially when I think of you know chemical industry it's a small, small family too it's not like it used to be you know in the Texaco and the days were different in the oil industry but I worked out in west Texas for several years for an oil and gas drilling firm Wild Catters they're crazy and loony and but they just absolutely do not care about what anybody thinks of them, it just seems so different
TD: yeah I can see that
CD: You know when the federal government started making you fill out you know all, the first gas crunch you know the 74 the you know and all these federal forms came down I mean most of these oil people got in trouble because they would just tear up these forms you know they'd come in you must fill this out you must do this you must do that they would just you know tear them up and I guess people in other places would do things like that but it seemed like those guys really had it...
TD: Well you heard about Judge Fisher's edict and I think it was back during the same time period dang I'm not sure and I forget if it was during the Jimmy Carter moral equivalent of our stuff but there was at some point...
CD: Should we turn it on again or is this an ok story
TD: well you tell me I mean there was some point when the President and I forget who it was ordered all federal buildings to raise the thermostats to a certain level for energy crisis type reasons and I want to say it was Judge Fischer who said not in this court and he issued a federal order finding that uh ask Baker, Baker will tell you something to the effect of in regard to this particular area I find it unconstitutional or legal to leave the AC on…
Interview ends abruptly.